Back Porch Confessions

Why Such Waste?

How many of us have ever thought/said, "I can't believe that church is spending XX Millions of dollars on a new sanctuary!  They could wipe out poverty in a small nation with that kind of money!"? 

Don't worry my hand is raised with you.  Now read this:

Matthew 26:6-13

⁶While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, ⁷a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table.

    ⁸When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked. ⁹"This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor."

    ¹⁰Aware of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. ¹¹The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. ¹²When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. ¹³I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."

So I ask - Are we doing the same thing as the disciples?  Do Jesus' words here in V. 10-13 speak to us as well?

What the woman (Mary - according to Luke) was doing was spending a lot of money (some commentaries say a year's wages) to glorify Christ.  If a church is doing the same thing by building a larger sanctuary then should we be saying: "Why this waste?"

Also - the disciples excuse for their judgment of Mary was: V.9 "This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor." Just as ours above: "They could wipe out poverty in a small nation with that kind of money!"  So then - when we look at our own lives - how much are we giving to the poor?  Is a years wages or XX millions of dollars to much to give to Christ? 

Just a thought...

Posted by Matt 

What makes a Christian

I've been thinking about this for a while. What makes a Christian? I was at the bookstore the other day picking out some books and I noticed that there are tons of books by different pastors talking about their approach to Jesus. i know all we have to do is believe in Jesus. But i guess my question is Do all views of Jesus make a Christian saved.

R.C. Sproul would say if you don't believe that God is sovereign, then you might as well be an atheist. Mark Driscoll says that if you take away the virgin birth, you take away Jesus. I wouldn't exactly go along with what Sproul is saying, but i think what Driscoll says has some truth to it.

Is the person who believes that Scripture could be wrong a Christian?

Is the person who believes that Jesus didn't rise from the dead a Christian?

Is the person who believes that Jesus was fully human, and in no way God, a Christian?

What about the person who believes that they can lose their salvation, or better put that can Jesus lose a Christian? Is that person a Christian?

I know we are not saved by our works, but by grace through faith. So What kind of faith gives us Grace?

Where do we draw the line?

I don't have an answer, this post isn't a lecture in anyway. I know that this blog has tons of members with different views of scripture, and i want to hear everyone's opinion and ideas.

Posted by: Jimmy

The Cross

I was reading an article with Brian Mclaren and he said that there was more to the cross than Jesus dying for our sins. I listend to a podcast with Doug Pagitt answering the question "What does the cross mean" and he said something like (my paraphrase) "I can't say only one thing happend on the cross, there were multiple things". Mark Driscoll said, "Because i'm a christian i must believe everything that happend on the cross".

What else happend on the cross other than Jesus dying for our sins?

Posted by: Jimmy

(Re)Understanding Jesus (Part 2 of 3)

The best part about spiritual frustrations is that they teach us to seek out answers.  If I believed that Jesus was the incarnation of God, then I had to also believe that he knew what he was talking about.  The only problem was that I felt like I didn’t really know what he was talking about.  Or maybe I did, but the cost was just too great.

The hardest scripture that I have ever tried to understand and live by is the passage where Jesus confronts the rich young man.  It is found in all three of the synoptic gospels, with  each shining a little different light on the scene, bringing it to fullness.  In the midst of my spiritual frustration with Jesus, I turned to this passage again.  For weeks I would read it almost every night, usually out of the gospel of Mark.  My heart would break each time, not only for the young man, but also for myself.  Mark makes mention of the fact that Jesus looked on the young man and loved him.  But when the young man leaves in fear/frustration/disappointment, Jesus didn’t chase after him.  Where was the Savior that searched for the lost sheep or the missing coin until they were found?  Where was the Savior that waited in eager anticipation outside of his house every day for his missing child to return?  In this passage, I only found the Savior that let the sheep/coin/prodigal slip through the crowd and out of his sight. 

Since I’m a selfish person, the questions I had were never directed at the young man for very long, but always came back to me.  How did I know that this wasn’t the same demand that Jesus was making for my own life?  I searched through many commentaries to see what people wiser than me had to say on the issue.  Most of the interpretations of the passage that were given inadvertently made Jesus seem even more cruel to me. 

Some commentators seemed to say that Jesus was making an example out of the young man, teaching a lesson to his disciples.  The man was merely a slide on a power point presentation.  I couldn’t reconcile that with the passage.  If Jesus really did love this man, then he wouldn’t take advantage of him simply because the guy didn’t ask the right questions.  The disciples almost never asked the right questions.  But Jesus worked with them to bring them to understanding.  But not in this case, not with this man.   

Other commentators took a more reformed view of the passage.  This man just was not one of the chosen.  I liked this view, not because it was pretty, but at least it seemed a logical conclusion.  But I’ve never quite been able to reconcile a reformed view of the world with the overarching narrative of scripture, so I decided that it was unfair to make an exception for a passage just because it suited my immediate interests.

The most popular/common application that I heard from people and books was that Jesus wants us “to be willing” to give up all of our stuff to follow after him.  Now, this might be a fine and correct view to a lot of people, but for me, I didn’t know what it even meant.  I don’t know how to tell if I am willing to give something up unless I actually do give that thing up.  It’s one thing to say, “I would give up anything to follow Jesus.”  It’s an entirely different thing to begin to give away our money, our clothes, our televisions, everything.  And when these thoughts enter the mind, prayer becomes some kind of spiritual yard sale, where everything must go.  If, during my prayer time, I thought about my stereo, my television, my framed Michael Jordan poster, those were things that He wanted me to give away also.  Everything was a liability, an intrusion in my discipleship.  During times like this, moving far away to a distant country or taking a tent into the woods like Grizzly Man didn’t seem like bad ideas.  Did Jesus want me to live some kind of life where I never physically owned anything at all?  That’s what it was beginning to feel like.

posted by Chet Harvey

(Re)Understanding Jesus (Part 1)

as an extended member of the backporch family, i'm going to make a few posts based on some things i've read and thought about over the last year.

    For over a year now I have, to one degree or another, tried to (re)understand Jesus.  Not that I didn’t have an understanding about Jesus before a year ago.  It was just different.  The truth is, I used to understand Jesus much more clearly.  He was God in human form.  He came to earth, said a lot of stuff, and then died on the cross, only to be raised three days later.  Jesus then went to Heaven to offer grace to anyone open to accepting it.  Upon accepting this grace, a person was deemed worthy of a good afterlife.  I loved my understanding of Jesus, and I could lead others point by point into that same understanding.  But then I went to Borders bookstore.

     In Borders bookstore, the religion section isn’t adorned with all of the same men and women that Lifeway is.  Sure, you can find a lot of them in Borders.  John Eldredge’s Braveheart Jesus sits just adjacent to Brennan Manning’s Forgiving Jesus.  But you can also find other, different pictures of Jesus in Borders.  And the more I went to Borders and read of some other views of Jesus, the more my own picture began to lose focus.  Did Jesus really say everything that was attributed to him?  Did Jesus really see himself as God in human form?  Did Jesus really have a seamless robe and Cadillac donkey?  OK, I didn’t struggle as much with the last one.  But questions were beginning to emerge.  Questions that I couldn’t find answers to in my current understanding of Jesus.  And these questions drew me back to the Gospels. 

     In the Gospels, especially the Synoptics (Mark, Luke, and Matthew), a different sounding Jesus began to emerge.  No longer was he the Jesus that went to Heaven to make sure that grace was offered to me if I committed my brain to believing certain propositions.  Instead, he judged me by my works.  He told me to sell everything.  He questioned my dedication, my trust.  I was no longer the disciple in tow as Jesus traveled the country side.  Instead, I was the foolish rich man that always left empty handed.

     The Christ that I would find in the writings of the Apostle Paul was in Heaven dispensing grace freely and openly, inviting in everyone despite any blemishes.  The Jesus I read about in the Gospels was separating people into sheep and goats, bound for Heaven or Hell based on how they treated certain classes of people.  And to be honest, I didn’t necessarily care for this Jesus as much.  I liked Paul’s Jesus, he made sense to me.  He told me to let go of works, to let go of earning my salvation, to live life in gratitude for him doing what I couldn’t ever possibly do.  But the Jesus in the gospels was urging me to live a disfunctional life.  A life that was void of satisfaction, of respect, a life on my hands and feet wiping floors and cleaning sores, always looking for some kind of acceptance. 

     And even then, how would I know that I had done enough?  Where was the end to it all?  How much of my money would I have to give?  Or my wardrobe?  Or my personality?  Or anything?  I didn’t know what this Jesus wanted from me, and I didn’t really know if I was prepared to give it.  It’s one thing to pray for God to somehow use everything I possess for His glory.  It’s an entirely different thing to empty my bank account and actually give every single thing away.  Where would I find myself at the end of it all?    The smile that I used to picture on Jesus’ face began to fade.  In its place, his features became much more stern.  And the one thing worse than a stern Jesus is a stern, allusive Jesus.  A Jesus who always keeps me at arms length with one more demand.  The very words that I used to turn to for comfort were now the words continually condemning me.  And this was the picture that was beginning to emerge… 

posted by Chet Harvey (www.myspace.com/chetspeaks)

WWJD for a Klondike Bar?

I know most of us read Driscoll's The Resurgence, but I loved this post and wanted to make sure you saw it - since "Jonny Cash" to full suit is the MO between our church services.  So Here's Mark:

Dear Abby: Can I wear my swim trunks to church?

A while back "Dear Abby" was asked a missional theology question. A debate ensued when one of her readers asked if people should be expected to dress up for church. The responses were all over the map:

• A priest who likely wears a dress/robe curiously said, "I'm appalled at how some people come dressed for Sunday worship. . . . What has become relaxed is the attitude, the respect and reverence people have for worship and church buildings. . . the lack of respect and reverence to worship is disgusting. These same people would never allow their children to play in a sporting event out of uniform, or apply for a job interview themselves dressed inappropriately. Sunday worship should be no different!"
• Diana from Cedar Rapids, Iowa, wrote in, "More important than what people are wearing is the reason for being in church in the first place. Maybe it would be better if we could all enter God's house blind. If we can't see what people are wearing, we can leave our judgments and prejudices outside and use the time to learn more about God's purpose for our lives."
• A cowboy from Iowa wrote in, possibly with a crayon, "That we worship is more important than what we wear. That letter reminded me of the story of the old cowboy who visited a new church in his jeans and boots. After the service, the pastor greeted him and remarked, 'We enjoyed having you here today, but before you return, you should have a talk with God about proper attire in church.' The next week, the cowboy returned wearing the same clothes, so the pastor approached him again. 'I thought I told you to speak with God about what to wear when you came here,' he said. The cowboy responded, 'I did. But he said he didn't know because he'd never set foot in here!'"
• Barbara from Pennsylvania wrote, My pastor says no one would consider dressing casually if they were going to be in the presence of our president or any other dignitary. Why would we consider anything less for our Lord? Makes perfect sense to me."
• And Matthew in Peoria wrote, "Church is where you go to give praise to the Lord, not check out what others are wearing. If 'Dismayed' feels put out because someone isn't dressed the way she'd like, then maybe the services should be held at Macy's so she can feel more comfortable."

The entire exchange raises an interesting series of questions, such as:

• If God is our Father and the church is our family, should we view going to church services as a formal event or a family event?
• If we are to welcome the poor and socially outcast, does a dress code essentially push such people away from church?
• If people become overly worried about their appearance instead of their heart, are they like the Pharisees that Jesus chastised for only washing the outside of the proverbial cup?
• Is the church building somehow a magical sacred space like the Old Testament Temple? Or is it simply a place where God's people gather that is no more and no less sacred than the homes they live in, now that the Spirit has been released from the Holy of Holies into the whole earth?
• Do we think that Jesus the homeless guy who was born in a barn was dressed up when He held church outdoors?
• Why should we press for formal dress in church when one of the only passages in the New Testament that speaks about what to wear to church rebukes women for dressing up to the degree that they turned church into a fashion show (1 Timothy 2:9–10)?
• When Jesus says that people judge the outward but God is looking at the heart, does that mean that as long as women don’t show up in clear heels looking like they need an aluminum pole to dance around, appearance is really a secondary matter?
• Since we are supposed to be hospitable and welcome people to church as missionaries, does it not make sense to dress like "normal" people rather than make normal people dress up like "church" people?

At our church I usually preach in a button-up shirt, jeans, and boots. A number of our worship bands, especially the indie rock ones at the evening services, play in t-shirts, jeans, and flip-flops. This is something I've been thinking through since I will be preaching a twelve-week series on questions about Jesus this fall. For the series, I am planning on wearing some funny Jesus t-shirts to show how much of a pop-culture icon Jesus is. They say things like:

• Jesus is watching you smoke that weed!
• Jesus is watching you download porn!
• Jesus is my homeboy
• Buddy Christ (from Dogma)
• Jesus vs. Satan (from South Park)
• WWJD for a Klondike Bar
• I heart Jesus and french fries

"Dear Abby" hit one of the more debated missional theology issues in our day that is related to many other issues, such as how we view God (e.g., daddy, boss, or president), church buildings (e.g., God’s special house or just another room), what constitutes a church (e.g., a formal building or a people who love Jesus), and the feel of a church service (e.g., formal meeting or family reunion).

D.A.L.L.T. & Predestination

Brad and I decided that this would make a great post to the site, as it is an example of some of the things we are trying to accomplish here – Debating, Asking, Listening, Learning, Talking. (DALLT).  As Brad mentions, we are just skimming the surface here, so we’d welcome your thoughts and comments.

It all started with me asking Brad last night the simple question of, "what are you thoughts on predestination vs. free will?"  Simple right?!  After a 15 minute lecture ; ) Brad got off his soap box and had to go eat.  We picked things up today over email…  So here for your enjoyment and/or disgust is our conversation:

Brad:

Hey man...I think that you need to take THIS medicine.  I got on Pipers website this morning and saw that the "sermon of the day" was on Romans 9.  There are some God glorifying statements in it and I wanted to pass it on.

Here is that link:
The Absolute Sovereignty of God: What Romans 9 Is About

There is also a wealth of sermons and notes that explain with generosity and humility the position of the "Doctrines of Grace."  Most of them are posted under "God" and "Salvation" in the Theology section.  Here is that Link.

We will talk more.  I just want you to know that when I entered this discussion about 7 years ago, I was completely adamant about my "Free Will" for good reason.  I was adamant that this is the only way that God could be loving.  Dr. Piper, through the book "Desiring God" (this is a link to the online book...read chapter one on the Happiness of God) took me on a journey through scripture and humbly showed that God was at the bottom of all things and through it, he is ever loving.  I am deeply indebted to this pastor and his work.  I am sure that you will find that he wants to simply have a high, exalted and unshaking view of God in all things, including the salvation of men.  My prayer is that you find this refreshing. 

Thanks for letting me be a part of the process.  You are a good friend.

Matt:
One question that popped in my mind this morning is that Jesus says - I am the way the truth and the life.  No one comes to the father except through me.  He goes on to say that He and the father are one.  So if the man in woods or on the island sees that creation screams for a creator and worships that creator by the stirring of the Holy Spirit, then isn't he technically worshiping Jesus and thus can it be said that he "knows" him, even though he has not heard the actual name "Jesus"?

Brad:

Good point.  I would argue that the only problem with that is that although the Father and Son are "one" in the fact that they are God, however, they are distinct in their roles and work in community.  So, they are three distinct persons within the God-head.  I know it is confusing, but when Jesus prays to the father, it is one "person" talking to another, yet...one God.  This makes my head hurt.

Saying this, Jesus must still be a part of the equation, otherwise, we don't need him at all.  To be the savior of the world, he must be realized as the messiah, the Christ, the Son of God and God's plan for redeeming mankind. No matter what his name (Jesus, Jesu Cristo, yeshua) He is still necessary.

I am putting a link here to another Piper sermon from Romans

Hope this helps. 

You:

___________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________

Can we love like this?

I was reading Shaun Groves blog last week & he made a great point about how the Amish have handled this whole school shooting thing in their community.  They didn't demand justice.  They didn't go after the shooters family and ask "why?"  They just loved.  That's it!  Loved.  They went to the widow of the shooter and said, "Jesus loves you.  We love you and we forgive you."  They went to the shooters funeral and cried with his widow.  Love.  I had almost forgot about this, and then Sunday, Mr. Muller (God bless that man) brought it up.  So if you haven't read about this (because it is not like it is making media headlines) the check it out here:

http://readshlog.blogspot.com/2006/10/stand-apart-and-witness_12.html

Then ask yourself, as I did, do I really Love like Christ?  because this is the closest thing I have seen to that in a long time and it doesn't really resemble the kind of love I show.

Posted by: Matt

Well, I'll start...

Brad has me reading a book. I think we should give Brad the title of "Community Librarian," since he does such an excellent job of doling out resources. Need some encouragement? Brad's got the sermon for you. A kick in the tail? Some explanation? Some direction? Here's a book...or two or three. (as I'm on my third or fourth Brad Jones-endorsed title I have just one question:...how's that Erwin McManus book coming, Brad?)

I know one of the reasons he wanted me to read this book. (Messy Spirituality, by Mike Yaconelli) He wants me to lighten up on my crusade for "excellence." Yaconelli brags that his church embraces incompetence. Almost flaunts it. Hooray for them, I say. And I say that because it seems that they've got it right. "Jesus cares more about desire than competence," he says. Amen. But I'll say again: I believe, in our case, that what we're up against is more "mediocrity" than incompetence. And I'd venture to say that mediocrity, in some cases, comes from a lack of desire. And then I'll suggest that lack of desire comes when the focus shifts from the object of desire to objects in the seats. It's a symptom of a bigger problem - that is - trying to be too many things. I'm not saying we are part of a body that doesn't desire Jesus, but maybe we have forgotten how to act on it. Maybe we're following someone else's formula and it's just not working for us.

Yaconelli says some other things that I really like. One is this:

"Desperate people don't do well in churches. They don't fit, and they don't cooperate in the furthering of their starvation."  and then...

"Desperate is a strong word...People who are desperate are rude, frantic, and reckless. Desperate people are explosive, focused, and uncompromising in their desire to get what they want. Someone who is desperate will crash through the veil of niceness. The New Testament is filled with desperate people, people who barged into private dinners, screamed at Jesus until they had his attention, or destroyed the roof of someone's house to get to him. People who are desperate for spirituality very seldom worry about the mess they make on their way to be with Jesus."

Am I the only one who recognized myself in that passage? Is our restlessness growing into desperation? Get out of the way...you are NOT going to keep me starving anymore? No worries, I don't REALLY want to offend everyone and make a huge mess, but...starvation is a big deal.

Finally, Yaconelli made the simplest of comments in talking about the quality of "unfinishedness" that can paralyze us. He said, "Jesus understood unfinishedness very well, which is why he was comfortable leaving eleven unfinished disciples." I'm not sure I'd thought about that before - that Jesus didn't leave behind sinless theological scholars - even though he could have. He left his kingdom in the hands of unfinished, confused, messy people...like us.

So...what are we waiting for?

posted by: Amy Wright